RobotRebels.org

Other Projects => 3D Printing => 3D Printers => Topic started by: KingBeetle on June 03, 2018, 05:54:47 AM

Title: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 03, 2018, 05:54:47 AM
Parts from China are finally starting to trickle in, and I can at least feel like I am making some progress on the build.  I received the smooth rods and bearings on Friday, and was able to partially assemble the Y-axis.  Note that the wood frame is just attached to check clearances and to see what it would look like.  No attempt has been made to position the frame front-to-back with any kind of accuracy.

I'm happy with the smoothness of the rods and bearings.  Finally the printer has a moving part! 

(https://i.imgur.com/SfqmK6r.jpg)
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 09, 2018, 01:53:11 AM
Got some of my M3 hardware and was able to get a little bit of assembly done.  Still waiting on the steppers and the lead screws to arrive so I can get this show on the road and start to make some REAL progress.

(https://i.imgur.com/awnaekGm.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/MqtuUJfm.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/dL3VjnJm.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/MdD9WDBm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: jinx on June 09, 2018, 04:28:57 AM
maybe slow, but there progress, took me 5 mths to get my first print! was joyat the end  ;D.
 you planning adding extra to the wooden frame, I see with some design they add triangle sides to the frame. wondering if you gonna add them, apart from making frame a little more sturdy gives you a place to mount the tronics and psu.

  (http://www.robotrebels.org/gallery/16_09_06_18_4_27_21.jpeg)
like those on the right
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 09, 2018, 02:21:57 PM
Well, the frame is 25mm thick and plenty rigid, so I don't think any extra reinforcement will be needed.  My plan is to 3D print a shoe/sleeve that slips onto the end of the PSU that will provide a place for the IEC power socket/fuse/switch to mount and cover up the AC mains connections to the PSU.  I may try and mount the heatbed MOSFET module in there too, with a small fan.  That will keep the wires short from PSU to the high amperage side of the MOSFET module.  I can run light gauge wires to the bed heater connections on the mainboard since they won't be carrying any kind of load.

I figure I will mount it something like in the picture below, but lowered down so its base is on the same plane as the bottom of the frame to serve as a sort of stabilizing bracket for the frame.

I haven't decided how I am going to mount the electronics yet.

(https://cdn.thingiverse.com/renders/60/06/6c/53/97/66e75942c02c6ed5ff9c99dc81a52943_preview_featured.JPG)
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: jinx on June 10, 2018, 04:19:00 AM
"I may try and mount the heatbed MOSFET module in there too, with a small fan"
 honestly there no need for a fan on those little monsters, 10 hrs of printing with a heated bed  the heat sink dont get hot/warm, think you be adding unnecessary noise with a fan.
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 10, 2018, 12:52:07 PM
The module I purchased is pictured below. The heat sink is 42mmx25mmx30mm.  I plan to purchase this 24V 200W silicone heater - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24V-200W-200X200mm-Silicone-Heater-Bed-w-100k-thermistor-3M-Tape/32869694356.html  (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/24V-200W-200X200mm-Silicone-Heater-Bed-w-100k-thermistor-3M-Tape/32869694356.html)

I just figured there was a reason for that massive (comparatively) heat sink, and it was gonna need additional cooling, especially if I mount it in a relatively small enclosure like in my proposed PSU boot.  You can't see it in the pictures, but the PCB even has a JST connector for a fan. 

So no need for an additional fan, eh?  That's why I joined this forum - to garner advice and improve my build.  Of course, the real beauty of building my own 3D printer is that if I do decide later it needs a fan, I can just 3D print a new PSU boot and add one. ;)


(https://i.imgur.com/zoDpPz0l.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/b1elcx9m.jpg)
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 11, 2018, 12:15:29 AM
Feeling irritated - I just started printing the fourth print of upper and lower Z-axis mounts for the build.  (I'm glad filament is cheap!)

The first set was scaled too small due to ABS shrinkage I didn't consider.  So I took that into account and printed a second, scale corrected set. 

Then I discovered the X-axis rods I purchased are about 12mm too long, which made the Z-axis rods and lead screws 12mm too far apart.  I could still mount the rods to the frame, but I felt the screws would be too close to the edges of the frame and might split the wood.  So I modified the mounts, moving the mounting holes on all four mounts 6mm inwards, and printed a third set.

Now I have discovered that the heads on the screws I purchased are too large in diameter and don't drop down into the shouldered holes in the mounts (I had to use imperial #6 x 3/4 inch screws because metric hex cap head wood screws are not readily available in the US).
So I modified my modified offset mounts, enlarging the shouldered holes to fit my available screws, and I am printing them again, hopefully for the last time.

*sigh*

All I can really say is that I am glad it's all open source and I can just make new parts to accommodate my needs.  I knew going into this project that buying parts from China from umpteen different suppliers and making them all work together was going to be challenging, so I guess I just have to mark it up to experience and move ahead!
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 12, 2018, 03:39:37 AM
Got some more parts in and was able to get all the axes assembled and mounted to the frame!  It's finally starting to look like a 3D printer.
(https://i.imgur.com/WXLzuVNm.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/R04AAMFm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: jinx on June 12, 2018, 05:24:47 AM
looking good,
 another classic presumption of jinx! when talking heatbed modules I use ( and think all use this one  ::)
               (http://www.robotrebels.org/gallery/16_12_06_18_4_53_46.jpeg)

 compared to the gen l board in size, its a little monster. not read a whole lot on yours,  be good to get an update when you up and running. what you gonna use for a build surface, 5 mm aluminum machined surface finish.

Quote
especially if I mount it in a relatively small enclosure like in my proposed PSU boot
my gut feeling  is you dont, for the first 30 hrs of printing, see how it goes,  with one final thought on mounting where ever it goes, can you get to it in seconds and easily inspect the wiring occasionally!. 
        if you gona have a fire (bed wise) gonna be there or the junction of the heat mat.

 on tht note happy building... goes for coffeee
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 13, 2018, 12:37:14 AM
Quote
..be good to get an update when you up and running.
Absolutely!    It probably won't be for a few weeks tho.  Hell, I haven't even ordered the bed heater or build surface yet. 


Quote
what you gonna use for a build surface, 5 mm aluminum machined surface finish.
I still haven't completely made up my mind regarding the build surface.  I actually was considering a 220x220x5mm 6061 aluminum plate, but I was doing some research into the mass, and a sheet that thick has a mass of around 650 grams.  Seems like a lot of inertia-creating mass to be jerking back and forth on the Y-axis.
Thinning the plate to 4mm drops the mass to around 525g, and 3mm has a mass of around 395g.  I'm not sure where the trade off is between losing heat retaining thickness and weight reducing thinness.
I do know that the 3mm build surface on my buddy's Makerbot R1 clone is terrible at retaining heat.  If I want to heat the bed above about 85C, I have to enclose all the sides and the top of the printer to keep it from radiating away all its heat.
I'm probably going to go with a 4mm think plate - Seems like the best balance between mass, rigidity, and heat retention, although damn, half a kilo of just print surface?


Quote
(bed MOSFET module) one final thought on mounting where ever it goes, can you get to it in seconds and easily inspect the wiring occasionally!
A valid concern I hadn't actually considered.  Perhaps a removable or hinged inspection panel might be a good  idea.
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 21, 2018, 04:38:36 AM
I made some more progress this week - I received the E3D V6 Clone and was able to put together and mount the extruder assembly:

(https://i.imgur.com/dAEhWj0m.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/DOyk1W2m.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/ZDBsYTOm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on June 29, 2018, 01:52:22 AM
I got the PSU base and cap modeled and printed this week - Struggled a little with making the PLA stick in the corners of the 120mmx95mm base.  The warping was driving me mad.
(https://i.imgur.com/p2Od2F4m.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/qh3uRCom.jpg)


I went ahead and let the print finish despite the warping, just so I could test-fit the IEC power socket/switch and the MOSFET module.  By the way, I have since shrunk-wrap insulation on those bare mains connectors!
(https://i.imgur.com/v1bbmrcm.jpg)


I ultimately solved the lifting/warping issues with "mouse ears" on the corners, and the parts printed beautifully after that.
(https://i.imgur.com/Mknp664m.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/zXMoYi6m.jpg)



And finally, the money shot with the PSU in place and the "Dolly" i3 logo painted white
(https://i.imgur.com/3CoHwpYm.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/uOzBOJAm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on July 01, 2018, 05:52:30 AM
It's ALIVE!  First test of basic Marlin firmware - No extruder or build plate yet, but it moves under it's own power!

(https://i.imgur.com/2ueCS4am.mp4)
Click the link to see it move in all its RepRap glory  --> https://i.imgur.com/2ueCS4a.mp4
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on July 14, 2018, 03:45:21 AM
Got the beast up and running today, and after much tweaking and fiddling, managed to produce a pretty nice looking benchy!
(https://i.imgur.com/2Oo17kvm.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/TISQix3m.jpg)(https://i.imgur.com/c2Hbnbpm.jpg)
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: MEgg on July 14, 2018, 05:38:34 AM
Hmm I also see this step in the side of your boat.
http://www.robotrebels.org/index.php?topic=633.20
Although not as visible like in my case.

Did not find time to find out where that comes from (broken laptop and too much work).
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on July 14, 2018, 11:13:35 AM
My first attempts at benchy had a really severe step like the one you pictured.  I blame the slicer.  I was using Slic3r 1.3.0 
I downloaded the Prusa fork of Slic3r (https://www.prusa3d.com/slic3r-prusa-edition/ (https://www.prusa3d.com/slic3r-prusa-edition/)) and the problem went away (or at least became significantly less severe).

I'm really digging the Prusa Edition of Slic3r.  It improved the quality of all my prints, and has already configured settings (or at least a really good framework) for my MK2 clone. 

It has Z-hop on retraction enabled by default, which has remedied the issues I have been having with my inductive Z probe hitting my prints and knocking them loose from the build plate.  And yes, I have it raised up as high as I can get it and still have it trigger.  I suspect its lack of sensitivity range stems from the fact that I bought the absolute cheapest one I could find ($2.39 USD shipped) from AliExpress.
I may play around with the Z-hop settings though - the default Z change is 0.6mm and it's set to do it on any move longer than 1mm.  It's quite noisy.  Thinking I may drop it to like 0.2mm and require a move that is equal to or greater than the horizontal distance offset between the nozzle and the probe.

Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: jinx on July 15, 2018, 03:46:18 AM
 you made belting progress,

you compared the speed setting with prusa and your standard slicer. suspect/thinking you got a little over extrusion going on, causing the ribbing and the prusa slicer moving slightly faster which in turn is  stretching the filament. giving the smoother finish.

        I drop the E/step in firmware ( by 20 increment ) down side to this is, could get a great wall and crappy top finish. (so dont go to far!).  the most sane approach!  with slicer is to tweak the Extrusion Multipliers, think they in the PRINT SETTING> ADVANCE  dont really use slicer that much these days. and haven't really tweaked those setting. so cant be much help here, but thats where i start with slicer

ps
 I drop the Z hop, just adds time to a print, but if you gonna use it, check out some of the acceleration related to it may reduce the noise. Auto bed probing over rated,  if you ask me and given how close that probe is to the prints, I be tempted to move it off the carriage and mount on the frame, use it as an endstop on the Z axis,, mount it so it triggers of the x axis bars.   
Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: MEgg on July 15, 2018, 08:44:53 AM
My first attempts at benchy had a really severe step like the one you pictured.  I blame the slicer.  I was using Slic3r 1.3.0 
I downloaded the Prusa fork of Slic3r (https://www.prusa3d.com/slic3r-prusa-edition/ (https://www.prusa3d.com/slic3r-prusa-edition/)) and the problem went away (or at least became significantly less severe).

I'm really digging the Prusa Edition of Slic3r.  It improved the quality of all my prints, and has already configured settings (or at least a really good framework) for my MK2 clone. 
[...]

My suspect is also Slic3r, since the step is not there when printing with Cura.
If I find time (as soon as laptop is ok and after my holidays - these are holidays with wife so no robot or 3D stuff) I will try that.
There is Cura-slicer, Slic3r : are there other slicers that anybody here tested?
Will the Prusa branch be ok for a delta printer like mine?

Title: Re: Sloooow progress on the I3 clone
Post by: KingBeetle on July 16, 2018, 04:20:59 AM
There is Cura-slicer, Slic3r : are there other slicers that anybody here tested?
Will the Prusa branch be ok for a delta printer like mine?

I personally have only used Slic3r.  It has done what I needed to do (mostly) and was easy to learn. 

As for the Prusa fork of Slicer being suitable for a delta, I don't really know.  Josef Prusa's justification for forking Slic3r was to be able to provide a slicing solution to his customer base that was pre-tuned for Prusa products.  Considering that, I question if it would offer delta users any advantage.
On the other hand, gcode is gcode is gcode, right?  Aside from the hardware specific codes of course - Obviously you aren't going to take gcode sliced for a Makerbot and expect it to work well on a MK2/3...